I'd like to use the web my way, thank you very much Quora.
I was browsing the web today, as I often do, with my iPhone on the can. (Yeah, you do it too, don't front.)
A link to an interesting Q&A on Quora came along, so I clicked.
And got this.
Wow. This is bold, even for Quora.
I can peek at one answer, then presumably I'll be so enamored with Quora's walled garden that I'll rush to download their app.
The introduction of iOS 6 also introduced "smart app banners" as a way to let users know that your site has an associated app. The site author just adds a META tag and mobile safari handles the rest.
<meta name="apple-itunes-app" content="app-id=999">
Note that the giant DOWNLOAD THIS APP PLEASE arrow is all Quora and is not part of the iOS 6 Smart App Banner feature. This is equivalent to a YouTube video embedding a "please subscribe video" or a reporter pointing at an unseen 1-800 number added later in post production.
This implementation goes against everything on the web. You're not just actively preventing me from visiting your site by forcing me to log in, but you're also actively forcing me to download your app to access your server.
I don't want your app. Apps are too much like 1990's CD-ROMs and not enough like the Web.
The Web Rejects Hacks
There's a pay wall over at the New York Times, in case you hadn't heard. When you hit the Times enough times or in different ways you'll be prompted to buy a subscription, and it's apparently working pretty well. At least, better than you'd expect.
But the Times uses a number of techniques strike a balance between "open looking" and "totally not open." If you hit a Times link from Google or Twitter, it works. If you hit the times from an email, you get a pay wall. If you read the Times a lot, you get a pay wall. These techniques are wide and varied. They appear to look at your IP, use cookies, use HTTP_Referer, use URL querystrings.
However, the New York Times and other web properties are attempting to use the web in a way that the web doesn't like. In fact, the NYTimes is actively playing Web Whack a Mole with those that would reject their pay wall.
The web itself actively doesn't like these hacks. It's not just that the people of the web don't like it, that's a social issue. It's that the technology underlayment doesn't like it.
Sites like this want to have their cake and eat it too. They want Google to freely index their content for searching, but when a person tries to actually READ the site they'll pop interstitial ads, use DIVs to cover the content and actively hide it from the user.
The uncomfortable tension for a business is that the web will never see content that's not indexed (by Google, effectively), but it's not OK to serve one piece of content to the GoogleBot and another piece to the live user. So, sites play tricks and the attempt to funnel us into usage patterns that fit their models and their perceptions. They HAVE to serve the whole page to all comers - ah, but do they have to actually let you SEE it?
What's Underneath?
Check out any Quora answer while on a mobile device not logged in. See that scroll bar there? The entire page actually loaded. I can scroll around! The white area is on top, blocking the content.
Don't believe me? Gobsmacked? Here's a screenshot of a View Source from my iPhone of this page. Sure the markup is really awful, but squint and you can see the content is there. All of it.
I love that my mobile data plan was used to download the full contents of a page that I'm not able to see.
No, I don't want your app. I want to use the web my way. You're not doing it right, therefore I reject you. You need to change your ways.
Yes, it's your prerogative on how you want to run your website, but I propose that just like ExpertsExchange and others before you, the open web will reject your chicanery.
I said Good Day Sir!
About Scott
Scott Hanselman is a former professor, former Chief Architect in finance, now speaker, consultant, father, diabetic, and Microsoft employee. He is a failed stand-up comic, a cornrower, and a book author.
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Quora is piled high with people asking stupid questions and giving meticulously sourced incorrect answers to all manner of tech inquiries.
Facebook is about as closed as you can get for a social networking site, and people don't seem to be leaving it in droves. Though they swear they will next week.
Google isn't even particularly open, though they're just open enough that they can pretend they are.
There are so many different ways to implement this better: having the linking URL act as a resolver to direct the user to the appropriate page to encourage app usage for mobile devices.
Besides, I don't even know the Business Case advantages of having an app over a good mobile site if the Use Case scenario is for the consumer to read only. If you wanted to contribute to the question, perhaps *then* prompt an app download. That would ensure higher app reusage if the primary target market for the app is people who actively engage in Quora vs forcing one-and-done downloads of people who are passive users.
Anyway, I think the Quora people should rethink this particular strategy, perhaps do some A/B testing so that a % of users hit the content wall and see if the percentage of pageviews/app downloads is a worthwhile business decision.
Is the NYT paywall the best approach? Probably not. It feels a little conniving. But has anyone found a better way? It seems to be working for them, and at least they are trying.
Quora's new approach is something else. Don't think they will succeed well here, and their approach just seems shady.
The modern web seems to be a place which everyone wants to monetize as a producer, yet everyone wants to consume for free. In fact often, the same people who want people to pay for their app/service/subscription etc. staunchly refuse to drop $0.99 on an app. Or complain about the presence of ads in their free game. If Print media, recorded music, and movie houses are to go the way of the dinosaur, we the people either need to accept that internet content is not going to remain free-of-cost-and-free-of-those-damn-ads, or accept the inevitable decline in the quality of such content.
Of course, providers need to stop trying to push antiquated business models into the connected, live, 24 - 7 digital realm. They need to adapt and experiment. Maybe that's what this is all about . . .
Those investors want a return, so it can't just be a nice, useful, $50MM valuation website. It needs to make a ton of money.
I predict that it will get worse and worse until it finally runs out of money. But with $61MM in the bank and a small staff, they'll keep annoying the world for a long time.
http://imgur.com/EWa0W9E
It looks like their content is not growing whereas hits are (maybe with AdBlock Plus and such), and someone there thought these kind of hacks would be brilliant ideas to force people to do things that they don't want to do.
javascript:(function($) {
$(".app_promo, .app_install_dialog").hide();
$(".answer_text").css({'margin-left': '110px', 'width': '88%'});
}(jQuery));
HAHA, the hack still works even on their new site. Just google any question, if you see it on ExpertsExchange then just view the cached version of the page and scroll to the bottom. The answers are always there, even though I've repeatedly emailed them telling them about this bug.
Essentially they have created a walled garden. There is no monetary cost for access, but I am sure they will profit from your information/usage. Of course they are free to run the business the way the like; I just don't like it.
I say this all the time! Bad customer service at a store, poor experience using an app or website.
Corne
Point: They went through the effort of sniffing for what OS the user is using and delivered different banners based on that. They just didn't go through the effort to make Android user's experience feel like it's aimed at them.
Frankly I am overwhelmed with general information at this point. I can't stand the NYT but I'm a Midwesterner, so maybe I just don't get it. So much "news" isn't really news and so much of the rest of it is simply poorly written editorials. Not unique - not useful.
I'd pay for this site, actually. Unique *and* useful. Couldn't figure out how, so I bought your lost phone app.
But you're right, Scott. If you tried to deny me with some tomfoolery, a loud, awful game show buzzer would go off in my head and I'd be gone.
Actually, I hear that sound a lot these days.
Good DAY Sir!
I'm curious which one you're using and if you'd checked out more than one?
The words actually do say, "You need the app to read all the answers".
Yet every time I see it I read, "You need to press your back button and find a more usable web site".
Apps that deliver web content cannot last if everyone is doing it. And it's unnecessary anyways.
What does google has to say about this kind of behavior in websites? I remember reading that these fall under foul play as per Google SEO policies.
If you hit a Times link from Google or Twitter, it works....
They want Google to freely index their content for searching, but when a person tries to actually READ the site they'll pop interstitial ads, use DIVs to cover the content and actively hide it from the user.They want Google to index everything, *and* they allow you to read anything that you find that way. That's a good thing. If you see something else interesting, they let you read that, too, up to ten times. That's also a good thing. But they don't want you to read unlimited amounts of their "value-add" for free. I would argue that that is *also* a good thing, as it allows them to continue to pay for the creation of their content.
I have the NY Times app, which allows free access to the top news stories, and depending on the day's events, I read it between a few times a week or several times a day. I don't subscribe, which means I can't use it to read columnists, etc, but I'm OK with that. I understand what they're trying to do, and I agree with it so I live with it.
Most casual users of the Internet seem to have a belief that the millions of people creating content and platforms fulltime on the Internet are doing it purely out of charity and the goodness of their hearts, and have no interest in or need for being compensated in any way for their work aside from a few "thanks" here and there. If the rest of the world were run this way, we'd be back to throwing spears at antelopes and growing all of our own food on plots of land not far from our homes within a year.
I agree that the Quora implementation is very poorly done. I'm not a frequent user, but when I hit the site recently I get the whole "You need an account to view this page" thing and immediately leave. However, I'm not Quora's target demographic; I don't spend much time on the site, and don't answer questions. So, if I were to join the crowds here and say, "I am NEVER coming back!" I suspect Quora's answer to me would be, "So?"
Point being, while their implementation is ugly, I suspect the loudest voices here are from people who don't pay to use Quora, would never pay to use Quora, don't spend much time evangelizing the brand to friends and others around the web, and don't spend much time clicking on ads, either. In other words, people who use up bandwidth and little else. My guess is, Quora will be happy to see those people go... just like how the company you work for wouldn't be too distressed if non-customers stopping by the office to snag free pencils and pens off of employees' desks found themselves locked out and angrily swore never to return. Oh well...
So go sign up for a free Instapaper.com account, then delete the part of the NYT url after the ? and copy everything else and "add" it to instapaper. *boom* instant free NYT (and you have a saved history of your articles).
And I'm with you on the hating the stupid big obnoxious pop-overs for "DOWNLAD ARE APP IT SO COOOOOL" or "CLICK HER EFOR MOBIL SITE!@" that obscures content I have otherwise already downloaded and *could* read if not for the obnoxious banner blanking out the site. This happened to me on the MIT technology review site the other day, so I had to download the article twice in order to be able to read it.
I have an amazing mobile browser with a large screen and have zero problems reading normal websites on it. Just fucking let me!!!
http://tommorris.org/posts/8070
Quite similar..
The second one looks like mobile Safari but how did you get it to do view source.
So where you using another browser app that used the UIWebView under the covers and provided its own toolbar? Or is this a "Developer Mode" you have to enable via Xcode or the Mac Safari's Developer mode, or something else?
Just curious :)
http://www.quora.com/Quora-product/What-do-you-think-of-Scott-Hanselmans-critique-of-Quora (added this link)
And as I am new to the place I promoted it thinking it may help to reach more users..
I am ignorant rgds internet and all, just a common user.
1 hour has passed, my question was viewed by 100 ppl. Only 3 following it (including me!).... but the only answer was deleted.
Hmm.
A Q&A website is not particularly sophisticated/hard to build, or particularly costly for an existing social network to implement. This Quora debacle just opens up market share for a more long-game, brand-oriented company, like Google, to step in and take the reins. Unfortunately, the inherent quality of the answers from such an established professional community will be hard to replicate, but if LinkedIn is out of the game maybe Google+ Business pages (or maybe Meetup?) could facilitate a proper rebirth. Maybe a "business only" section of Yahoo? The great thing about Answers was that by answering a question you could help someone and advertise your skills (a link to your CV was always attached); having a skin in the game (I believe) was the key catalyst for better quality - this will be a necessary component for future iterations.
time a comment is added I recieve 4 emails
with the exact same comment. Is there a means you are able to remove
me from that service? Appreciate it!
blogging platform available right now. (from what I've read) Is that what you are
using on your blog?
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