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Hanselminutes Podcast 151 - Fit and Fitness with Ward Cunningham and James Shore

February 28, 2009 Comment on this post [7] Posted in Podcast | Tools
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WardCunninghamMy one-hundred-and-fifty-first podcast is up. Ward Cunningham is the creator of the Wiki, and the creator of the "Fit" testing framework. James Shore is the coordinator of the Fit project, an agile coach and the author of The Art of Agile Development.

JamesShoreYou may have heard the terms "Fit" and "Fitnesse" bandied about by the software engineering literati. What are they? Are they useful? Are they used at all? Does your testing strategy need some fitnesse? The creator of Fit and the coordinator of the Fit project chat with Scott and answer the hard questions. Is Fit Dead?

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As I've said before this show comes to you with the audio expertise and stewardship of Carl Franklin. The name comes from Travis Illig, but the goal of the show is simple. Avoid wasting the listener's time. (and make the commute less boring)

Enjoy. Who knows what'll happen in the next show?

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About Scott

Scott Hanselman is a former professor, former Chief Architect in finance, now speaker, consultant, father, diabetic, and Microsoft employee. He is a failed stand-up comic, a cornrower, and a book author.

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Comment on this post [7]
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February 28, 2009 23:04
Maybe you could interview someone from or using "Cucumber" http://wiki.github.com/aslakhellesoy/cucumber

It would be interesting to hear about this tool for addressing the interface between developer and customer. Communication is screwed up way too often.

Thanks for the variety of shows you put on.

I was trying to use my yahoo open ID and when I tried to continue back to the site I got a 403 forbidden page.
Tim Brown
February 28, 2009 23:31
Hi, Scott!
There's some troubles you've got :( I can't download podcast.
Link goes to
The page cannot be found
http://brabadu.livejournal.com/
March 01, 2009 2:27
Seems to be fixed now, brabadu. Give it another try.
Joe Chung
March 01, 2009 4:27
Try the MP3 now...
Scott Hanselman
March 01, 2009 17:50
I have personally used fitnesse for over a year now and it is exceptionally well suited to being able to resolve the ambiguities that Ward and James mention. My tool is a console based application that was written in C and we are re-writing in C#. When the program was in C even unit testing was nearly impossible. Having fitnesse to allow the developers and clients to verify behaviour makes re-writing the code so much easier and safer!

Thanks Ward/James/et al.

Great podcast!

p.s. Full disclosure: there is also another framework similar to Fit called Concordion for Java (http://www.concordion.org/)
http://jeffreycameron.myopenid.com/
March 06, 2009 20:51
Fitnesse seems interesting enough. I know that developers are certainly going to be interested in it and thanks for introducing it here but what do customers think of it? Are there any testimonials from customers who felt as though it really added value for them? It is true that understanding the correct requirements is probably one of the more challenging aspects of any software development effort; especially since for a lot of projects even the customer isn't sure what they want until the project actually begins (hence protoype driven agile development).
Ted Kolovos
March 17, 2009 2:51
If you really want to understand where Fit/Fitnesse work in your testing environment, please check out this book Agile Testing: A Practical Guide for Testers and Agile Teams (Crispin and Gregory)
http://www.amazon.com/New-CIO-Leader-Setting-Delivering/dp/1591395771

It talks about the 4 quadrants of testing... Unit/Component, Customer Facing (Gui-based, non-gui based), Tests that Critique the product (Beta testing, Alpha testing, usability testing), and Technical Critiquing (security, maintainability, scalability, etc)

Fitnesse falls into the non-gui based Customer-facing tests that 'support the team'.
james peckham

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Disclaimer: The opinions expressed herein are my own personal opinions and do not represent my employer's view in any way.